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Scoring: IMP
Pd opens 1♦, RHO passes and you bid 1♥, LHO gets in with 3♠, pd and RHO pass.
Do you agree with bidding so far and what would you bid next ?
GBB
Nasty Preempts, what to do ?
#1
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Posted 2005-October-15, 07:02
Pd opens 1♦, RHO passes and you bid 1♥, LHO gets in with 3♠, pd and RHO pass.
Do you agree with bidding so far and what would you bid next ?
GBB
“If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
#2
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Nuclear power
Posted 2005-October-15, 07:05
Would have responded 2♣.
Now I double.
Now I double.
#3
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Posted 2005-October-15, 07:14
Agree with Gerben on both counts.
#4
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Posted 2005-October-15, 09:35
Same here, wtp.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#5 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-15, 09:43
Strongly disagree with 1H. With good hands there's no reason to distort our shape (and before someone says something about a MAFIA system or canape this is the 2/1 SAYC board).
I guess I X but I really don't like it. Partner will pass with a lot of "nothing" hands that have no good bid. He may bid 4H on a 3 card suit...etc. But 4C and 4S both do not appeal.
I guess I X but I really don't like it. Partner will pass with a lot of "nothing" hands that have no good bid. He may bid 4H on a 3 card suit...etc. But 4C and 4S both do not appeal.
#6
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Posted 2005-October-15, 18:13
The 1♥ response is a common but (in my view) fundamental error; born of the erroneous notion that finding a 4-4 major suit fit is the first priority in constructive bidding. It is far more important, when you own game-going values, to describe your shape; with such values, there is always time to find the major fit (well, preempts can limit the validity of that statement, but it is broadly true).
2♣ is very clear.
Regardless, you must now double: to bid 4♣ promises more ♥'s than you have.
2♣ is very clear.
Regardless, you must now double: to bid 4♣ promises more ♥'s than you have.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#7
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Posted 2005-October-15, 18:39
i have to admit, bidding 1H wouldn't enter my mind.. i imagine 3S follows either 1H or 2C, so now i'd double
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#8
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Posted 2005-October-16, 03:52
1♥ is aweful, we have GF, so we can easily reverse -> start with 2♣.
Now we can only double...
Now we can only double...
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#9
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Posted 2005-October-16, 04:01
No,
I would have bid 2C, my longest suit,
this would have set up a forcing pass seq,
playing 2/1 or SA, i.e. partners pass would have
got a meaning.
Now I double, lets get partner involved.
With kind regards
Marlowe
I would have bid 2C, my longest suit,
this would have set up a forcing pass seq,
playing 2/1 or SA, i.e. partners pass would have
got a meaning.
Now I double, lets get partner involved.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#10
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Posted 2005-October-16, 12:32
Why didn't I initially respond 2C? Makes life easier for opener as the 2C response at least indicates approximately "how high" if not "what strain" yet.
After an initial 1H response, a re-opening dbl over 3S might be taken by opener as implying a 5-card heart suit.
After an initial 1H response, a re-opening dbl over 3S might be taken by opener as implying a 5-card heart suit.
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"
#11
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Posted 2005-October-16, 12:49
Ok, so everybody bids 2♣ to begin with.
But now your are stuck in this sequence and pd bids 4♥ and RHO bids 4♠.
What do you do now ?
GBB
But now your are stuck in this sequence and pd bids 4♥ and RHO bids 4♠.
What do you do now ?
GBB
“If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
#12
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Posted 2005-October-16, 14:33
So if I understand you correctly, the auction so far has gone:
1D-(p)-1H-(3S)
p -(p)-Dbl-(p)
4H-(4S)-??
I double. Pass would not be forcing, can't imagine making any other call. And now I regret even more that we didn't bid 2C to start with.
1D-(p)-1H-(3S)
p -(p)-Dbl-(p)
4H-(4S)-??
I double. Pass would not be forcing, can't imagine making any other call. And now I regret even more that we didn't bid 2C to start with.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#13
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Posted 2005-October-16, 17:02
Trpltrbl, on Oct 16 2005, 01:49 PM, said:
Ok, so everybody bids 2♣ to begin with.
But now your are stuck in this sequence and pd bids 4♥ and RHO bids 4♠.
What do you do now ?
GBB
But now your are stuck in this sequence and pd bids 4♥ and RHO bids 4♠.
What do you do now ?
GBB
Hi,
ok, DBl, wtp?
Do you want to hear 5H? No.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#14
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Posted 2005-October-16, 18:49
i agree 100% with han... had i originally bid 2C i could pass here and not fear a pass by partner... but having responded 1H i can't afford to pass
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#15
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Posted 2005-October-16, 18:51
Hannie, on Oct 16 2005, 03:33 PM, said:
So if I understand you correctly, the auction so far has gone:
1D-(p)-1H-(3S)
p -(p)-Dbl-(p)
4H-(4S)-??
I double. Pass would not be forcing, can't imagine making any other call. And now I regret even more that we didn't bid 2C to start with.
1D-(p)-1H-(3S)
p -(p)-Dbl-(p)
4H-(4S)-??
I double. Pass would not be forcing, can't imagine making any other call. And now I regret even more that we didn't bid 2C to start with.
Since responder didn't start with a 2C response, the hand is now distorted. P doesn't know about my good controls including AK in his initial suit.
I am not crazy about having to double with this hand (I guess it warns P that my heart length is limited?). My concern is that P might interpret this as showing some wasted values in spades, and telling P to shut up when this hand could belong in slam.
PS: I guess I need some good training on forcing pass situations.
DHL
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"
#16
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Posted 2005-October-17, 03:16
Also agree with Han on everything
#17 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-17, 07:50
Pass seems forcing to me...and I would pass. Does it really make sense that we can let them play 4S undoubled after we forced to game (or 4 of a minor) with our balancing bid, indicating that we had more than half the deck, partner bid game, and now the opponents who had previously stopped in 3S can play 4 undoubled? I'm not a big believer in forcing passes in all kinds of auctions but it seems ones where we have
A ) the deck
B ) have bid game
C ) the opponents are clearly saving as they stopped in 3 and now bid 4
that a forcing pass would apply.
A ) the deck
B ) have bid game
C ) the opponents are clearly saving as they stopped in 3 and now bid 4
that a forcing pass would apply.
#18
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Posted 2005-October-17, 10:02
Is pass forcing?
Any practiced pair should have very detailed agreements about the meaning of pass in many, many sequences. This sequence might escape many pairs, because East is bidding oddly. It will be rare for an expert opp to pass 3♠ when intending to take a save over 4♥.
I think we have 'voluntarily' bid game: altho my hand could be weaker for the reopening double and partner bid 4♥ with a gun to his head.
This therefore meets one of my basic rules for defining a forcing pass.
Having said that, I do NOT want to hear 5♥, and that is (I fear) what a forcing pass suggests. I think that a pass here delivers a 5 card suit... oh, I have one.... oh, it is not going to be trump.
Yes, partner with 4=6 in the reds should bid 5♦ along the way, but he probably does not hold that shape.
So I double, knowing that this will end the auction, and I hope I go plus.
Any practiced pair should have very detailed agreements about the meaning of pass in many, many sequences. This sequence might escape many pairs, because East is bidding oddly. It will be rare for an expert opp to pass 3♠ when intending to take a save over 4♥.
I think we have 'voluntarily' bid game: altho my hand could be weaker for the reopening double and partner bid 4♥ with a gun to his head.
This therefore meets one of my basic rules for defining a forcing pass.
Having said that, I do NOT want to hear 5♥, and that is (I fear) what a forcing pass suggests. I think that a pass here delivers a 5 card suit... oh, I have one.... oh, it is not going to be trump.
Yes, partner with 4=6 in the reds should bid 5♦ along the way, but he probably does not hold that shape.
So I double, knowing that this will end the auction, and I hope I go plus.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#19
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Posted 2005-October-17, 10:07
Double take 800, but if replying 2♣ directly instead of 1♥ will get you 1370.
Pd had
♠xx
♥KJx
♦QTxx
♣AQ9x
GBB
Pd had
♠xx
♥KJx
♦QTxx
♣AQ9x
GBB
“If there is dissatisfaction with the status quo, good. If there is ferment,
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
#20 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-17, 10:09
Trpltrbl, on Oct 17 2005, 11:07 AM, said:
Double take 800, but if replying 2♣ directly instead of 1♥ will get you 1370.
Pd had
♠xx
♥KJx
♦QTxx
♣AQ9x
GBB
Pd had
♠xx
♥KJx
♦QTxx
♣AQ9x
GBB
I imagine he will X then if you pass
I cant think of a hand partner would bid 5 hearts with that didn't contain 4 hearts. I would pass hoping to hear 5D (or ...unlikely but 1354?) 5C. In practice partner is usually going to X when you pass.