[Wackojack]

I decided to try and learn 2/1 GF strong NT to find out if it has decisive advantages over Acol weak NT. I got onto support doubles and ask the following questions:

I open 1♣ and the auction goes 1♣-1♥-1♠-2♥, ?
I would play 1♠ as promising 5, since a double would show 4.
As I normally played Acol (12-14), suppose I have a doubleton spade and a balanced hand. Then if I double in this position, pd would know that I have a balanced hand, do not have 3 spades but wish to compete and so by inference must have at least 15 points. If I raise to 2♠ it would be from a min opening balanced or unbalanced with at least 3 spades.
Playing 2/1 with support doubles, a double in this position shows 3x spades, but pd will not know anything else about the hand. As I understand it could be balanced or unbalanced, so equivalent to the Acol raise to 2♠. I assume that a pass in this position denies 3x spades. Does an 18-19 balanced hand with 2x spades have to pass? Then surely pd with a min will pass also, and you have sold out with 23-24 points. How does playing support double get over this problem? Would it not be better in this situation when pd promises 5, to raise with 3 and make support double with 2?

I open 1♣ and the auction goes 1♣-p-1♠-2♥, ?
Now 1♠ only promises 4.
Playing Acol (12-14), I would normally raise with a 12-14 balanced hand and 3x spades and double with a stronger balanced hand and 2 spades.
Playing 2/1, A double shows 3x spades. With 2x spades what do I do with a balanced 18-19?

As I see it at the moment there seems to be a huge disadvantage to playing support doubles. I am sure that is not really true, and I am just missing something. Please can you help?

[cherdano]

I think Wackojack was asking in a strong NT context.

If partner has shown 5 cards in his suit -- don't play support doubles. Raise to 2 with 3, and raise to 3 with some shape and 4.
That still leaves the problem what to do with 18-19 balanced on the auction
1m-1♠-(2♥). If you have a stopper, you of course bid 2NT (don't bid that with 12-14 balanced). If you don't have a stopper, and no 3 spades, you are indeed stuck. You can try to rebid 2NT without stopper (ugh), rebid your 5-card suit (ugh), pass and hope partner reopens (ugh), or pray it doesn't come up.

Arend

[mike777]

cherdano, on Oct 11 2005, 01:36 PM, said:

I think Wackojack was asking in a strong NT context.

If partner has shown 5 cards in his suit -- don't play support doubles. Raise to 2 with 3, and raise to 3 with some shape and 4.
That still leaves the problem what to do with 18-19 balanced on the auction
1m-1♠-(2♥). If you have a stopper, you of course bid 2NT (don't bid that with 12-14 balanced). If you don't have a stopper, and no 3 spades, you are indeed stuck. You can try to rebid 2NT without stopper (ugh), rebid your 5-card suit (ugh), pass and hope partner reopens (ugh), or pray it doesn't come up.

Arend

Is this one more reason people play Mexican 2D, not because 2D is such a great bid but it helps improve other auctions that 18-19 balanced hands are not possible?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if 1S already promises 5 cards, playing support double
makes no sense.
Support doubles were invented to help you to reach the
correct fit level, more precise: to help you to decide,
if the 3 level is safe, but opener has this knowledge
already, he knows that the partnership has a 8(9) card fit.

A double by opener could now be used as "optional", showing
additional strength and a (semi-)balanced hand type, ... i.e.
a hand with spade tolerance, suggesting partner, that there
maybe a chance to get their scalp.

Another option would be to use the double to show at least 4-4
in the minor, but again promising spade tolerance.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Trpltrbl]

Wackojack, on Oct 11 2005, 12:37 PM, said:

I open 1♣ and the auction goes 1♣-p-1♠-2♥, ?
Now 1♠ only promises 4.

Playing 2/1, A double shows 3x spades. With 2x spades what do I do with a balanced 18-19?

Bid 3♥, showing good hand with no ♥ stopper and not 3 or more ♠.
With ♥ stopper you can bid 2 NT yourself. Showing balanced 18-19 HCP and generally not 3+♠

GBB

[Trpltrbl]

Wackojack, on Oct 11 2005, 12:37 PM, said:

I open 1♣ and the auction goes 1♣-1♥-1♠-2♥, ?
I would play 1♠ as promising 5, since a double would show 4.

Playing 2/1 with support doubles, a double in this position shows 3x spades, but pd will not know anything else about the hand. As I understand it could be balanced or unbalanced, so equivalent to the Acol raise to 2♠. I assume that a pass in this position denies 3x spades. Does an 18-19 balanced hand with 2x spades have to pass? How does playing support double get over this problem? Would it not be better in this situation when pd promises 5, to raise with 3 and make support double with 2?

You have a point there, but not everybody plays that 1♠ shows a 5+ card suit.
If you have a balanced 2-3-4-4 type hand, maybe 2-3-3-5 type hand with tophonor in ♠, preferable the Ace or King and you are stuck for rebid, I would double as support, only if I have no ♥ stopper, otherwise I would bid 2NT.
If pd has 5 card suit it should have play.
And sometimes you are just stuck.
Nothing is perfect and then it comes down to tablefeeling.

GBB