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Scoring: IMP
You have NOT agreed ELC in this position. In fact you haven't agreed much in this position at all
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Sandwich overcall No ELC agreed
#1
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Posted 2005-October-09, 13:32
1♥ p 2♥ and you have:
You have NOT agreed ELC in this position. In fact you haven't agreed much in this position at all
You have NOT agreed ELC in this position. In fact you haven't agreed much in this position at all
#2
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Posted 2005-October-09, 13:45
2S
We do not have to show all 2 suited hands of any strength do we ?
Of course for me this is OBAR so partner will play me for balancing
.
We do not have to show all 2 suited hands of any strength do we ?
Of course for me this is OBAR so partner will play me for balancing
.
#3
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Posted 2005-October-09, 14:01
Even if we've agreed ELC here, I wouldn't use it. 2♠ is just fine, at least given that we have no way to suggest diamonds and still be able to play 2♠ in a 5-3. (And even a 5-2 is fine and partner only rarely has 1 spade on this auction.)
Andy
Andy
#4
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Posted 2005-October-09, 14:47
Wise sage (or was it "wise guy?") once said:
When you hold 2 suits and a hand worth bidding, you might wish to start bidding them.
DHL
When you hold 2 suits and a hand worth bidding, you might wish to start bidding them.
DHL
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"
#5
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Posted 2005-October-09, 14:56
First of all, I don't know what ELC stands for. I'm the lone vote for 4D, intending this as 5-5 in the pointed suits, non-forcing. If this is ELC and I suspect that my partner won't get it, I wouldn't bid it. I voted for 4D because I think that it is the right bid.
I would bid 2S on much worse hands (AQxxx x Kxxx xxx is automatic), especially at these colors. Besides, if I bid 2S then the bidding might come back to me at 4H and I will have no idea what to do, nor will partner know that I have diamonds. I'd rather show both suits right away and make them guess.
I would bid 2S on much worse hands (AQxxx x Kxxx xxx is automatic), especially at these colors. Besides, if I bid 2S then the bidding might come back to me at 4H and I will have no idea what to do, nor will partner know that I have diamonds. I'd rather show both suits right away and make them guess.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#6
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Posted 2005-October-09, 15:05
ELC is Equal Level Correction.
So doubling now and then bidding 3♦ over 3♣ to show the pointed suits.
So doubling now and then bidding 3♦ over 3♣ to show the pointed suits.
#7
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Posted 2005-October-09, 15:17
2S for me. I don't have enough to guarantee the 3 level here, as I'm not overly convinced we have a big fit.
#8
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Posted 2005-October-09, 20:30
Hannie, on Oct 9 2005, 03:56 PM, said:
First of all, I don't know what ELC stands for. I'm the lone vote for 4D, intending this as 5-5 in the pointed suits, non-forcing. If this is ELC and I suspect that my partner won't get it, I wouldn't bid it. I voted for 4D because I think that it is the right bid.
I would bid 2S on much worse hands (AQxxx x Kxxx xxx is automatic), especially at these colors. Besides, if I bid 2S then the bidding might come back to me at 4H and I will have no idea what to do, nor will partner know that I have diamonds. I'd rather show both suits right away and make them guess.
I would bid 2S on much worse hands (AQxxx x Kxxx xxx is automatic), especially at these colors. Besides, if I bid 2S then the bidding might come back to me at 4H and I will have no idea what to do, nor will partner know that I have diamonds. I'd rather show both suits right away and make them guess.
ELC = equal-level conversion (takeout doubles)
I.e.: to double and then bid a higher ranking suit than the one P responds in doesn't promise extra values, just that you had something like hand BPO-006B.
"That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!"
#10
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Posted 2005-October-10, 04:55
Well the problem is going down in 2♠ with 5♦ cold, or partner playing you for a prebalancing hand where you have this monster and you play 2♠ with 4♠ cold (at least you won't go down as in first example).
I'm not saying there is a solution, but at least admit there is a problem
Bonus question: Same hand the auction now is 1♥ pass 3♥. Your bid.
I'm not saying there is a solution, but at least admit there is a problem
Bonus question: Same hand the auction now is 1♥ pass 3♥. Your bid.
#11
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Posted 2005-October-10, 05:34
Also don't see the problem: 2♠...
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#12
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Posted 2005-October-10, 06:46
I bid 2♠, but I do see the problem, and can accept that 4♦ might work better.
On the bonus question, I think I'm bidding 3♠, but here double might be better (assuming that ELC would apply now).
On the bonus question, I think I'm bidding 3♠, but here double might be better (assuming that ELC would apply now).
#13
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Posted 2005-October-10, 07:00
#14 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-10, 08:07
Gerben42, on Oct 10 2005, 05:55 AM, said:
Well the problem is going down in 2♠ with 5♦ cold, or partner playing you for a prebalancing hand where you have this monster and you play 2♠ with 4♠ cold (at least you won't go down as in first example).
I'm not saying there is a solution, but at least admit there is a problem
Bonus question: Same hand the auction now is 1♥ pass 3♥. Your bid.
I'm not saying there is a solution, but at least admit there is a problem
Bonus question: Same hand the auction now is 1♥ pass 3♥. Your bid.
I guess we define problem differently. For instance if RHO opened 3C and I had KJx Axx Kxx AQJ I would not consider this to be a problem (it's an obvious 3N). I suppose you would as we might get Xed and go for a number thus making it a problem.
I don't think 2S is guaranteed to get us to our best contract, but nothing else makes sense (to me). 3H forces us higher than our hand is willing to go, if we have a game it's probably in spades so 2S is likely to get us there, partner probably doesn't have much since they both bid so 5 of a minor is unlikely, etc etc etc.
BTW you should have made 2S even after misguessing clubs by singling in your trumps instead of ever playing them.
#15
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Posted 2005-October-10, 09:12
With a pickup partner I bid 2♠, I'm on a guess anyway with no agreements and 2♠ keeps it low.
In an established partnership, X is wrong even playing ELC. Partner will never play you for 5 good spades. I don't think Leaping Michaels should apply here. So to my mind, the choice is between 2♠ and 3♥.
If we prebalance on light hands in this sequence, my hand is too good for 2♠.
If our actions are sound in this sequence, I bid 2♠ and partner will bid 2NT scambling, assuring we at least get to the right suit. Depending on our agreed strength ranges, either I would bid 4♦ over 2NT or partner would raise my 3♦ to 4♦. In either case, the other hand carries on to five. 6♦ makes double dummy but no one would want to be there.
In an established partnership, X is wrong even playing ELC. Partner will never play you for 5 good spades. I don't think Leaping Michaels should apply here. So to my mind, the choice is between 2♠ and 3♥.
If we prebalance on light hands in this sequence, my hand is too good for 2♠.
If our actions are sound in this sequence, I bid 2♠ and partner will bid 2NT scambling, assuring we at least get to the right suit. Depending on our agreed strength ranges, either I would bid 4♦ over 2NT or partner would raise my 3♦ to 4♦. In either case, the other hand carries on to five. 6♦ makes double dummy but no one would want to be there.
#16
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Posted 2005-October-10, 09:22
Thanks for the comments Justin. I guess I have to work on my Moysian fits
I DO have the same definition of problem, and know that any bid may turn out horribly. However some bids are more likely to turn out horribly than others. Perhaps 2NT here should show ANY 2-suiter (now that has its problems too!)
BTW I think that Leaping Michael's should apply here but that this hand is not strong enough.
I DO have the same definition of problem, and know that any bid may turn out horribly. However some bids are more likely to turn out horribly than others. Perhaps 2NT here should show ANY 2-suiter (now that has its problems too!)
BTW I think that Leaping Michael's should apply here but that this hand is not strong enough.
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