[pclayton]

Matchpoints, Vul vs not, 2nd seat (RHO passes). You play 2/1 with 15-17 NT. Opening bids are neither super-sound nor super-light.

A:

Scoring: MP

---

B :

Scoring: MP

---

C:

Scoring: MP

---

D:

Scoring: MP

---

Which of these would you open?

[mike777]

All of them, easy. Yes I open 99.99% of balanced 11 counts vul in first and second seat.

[luke warm]

none of them, not playing 15-17 nt.. i'd *rather* open A & B 1NT but i'd pass C & D in any case

[pbleighton]

Given the stated opening criteria, A and B only. They are reasonable 12 counts, in spite of their shape. For the other two, a 4333 11 count would have to be very unusual to qualify as not light in a 2/1 framework.

Peter

[Blofeld]

None of them. I have nothing worth saying about my minors (and the system means I'm bidding a minor), and the hand doesn't have much playing strength.

Playing a weak no trump I think I'd open A, and possibly B.

[han]

None of them.

I consider hand A a bad 12-count, and playing 2/1 with 15-17 NT I will pass some 12-counts when vulnerable.

[cherdano]

Hannie, on Oct 9 2005, 09:23 PM, said:

None of them.

I consider hand A a bad 12-count, and playing 2/1 with 15-17 NT I will pass some 12-counts when vulnerable.

Han, you are lost. A 4-card suit AKTx and a JT combination is not enough for you to save a 12-count from the 4333 religion.

I agree on the general rule - I expect to pass some balanced 12-counts, and only open very good balanced 11-counts when playing a 15-17 notrump opening.

Arend

[MickyB]

A and B - did noone tell you that you should open iff you have 12 points?

[Blofeld]

[hrothgar]

pclayton, on Oct 9 2005, 09:38 PM, said:

Matchpoints, Vul vs not, 2nd seat (RHO passes). You play 2/1 with 15-17 NT. Opening bids are neither super-sound nor super-light.

A:

Scoring: MP

---

B :

Scoring: MP

---

C:

Scoring: MP

---

D:

Scoring: MP

---

Which of these would you open?

I consider hand 1 to be a borderline opening playing 2/1.
I would probably pass.

I don't consider any of the other hands strong enough to open within the context of a 2/1 system.

[Double !]

I'd probably open hand A (preferably with a weak NT, but...) only because of the JT combo in diamonds, but it is very close to a pass. Although I am opening lighter and lighter these days, the rest of the hands just don't do it for me, and A is on the very edge of my comfort zone. 9 losers..yuck!

DHL

[han]

cherdano, on Oct 9 2005, 02:34 PM, said:

Hannie, on Oct 9 2005, 09:23 PM, said:

None of them.

I consider hand A a bad 12-count, and playing 2/1 with 15-17 NT I will pass some 12-counts when vulnerable.

Han, you are lost. A 4-card suit AKTx and a JT combination is not enough for you to save a 12-count from the 4333 religion.

I agree on the general rule - I expect to pass some balanced 12-counts, and only open very good balanced 11-counts when playing a 15-17 notrump opening.

Arend

You may be right that playing bridge with Ben has ruined my ability to evaluate 4333's properly. But even when playing with Ben I would open hand A, and I would expect him to do the same. That is different though, as we play 14-16 NT and open lighter than most people.

For what it is worth, even the K-R evaluator (which substracts .5 points for 4333 shape) gives it 12.25, so perhaps I was mistaken when I called this a "bad 12-count".

[han]

Double !, on Oct 9 2005, 03:40 PM, said:

9 losers..yuck!

Notice that Don is even more lost than I am, counting losers with 4333 shape.

[Double !]

lol
stop picking on me!

I've been lost for a long time, perhaps never to be found!!!
Yes, I will admit that I learned to play bridge yesterday (Al Rothism), but it costs extra to find out exactly what time yesterday.

(BTW, just for exercise, I also tried to count zars: cover all bases.)

DHL

[Winstonm]

The best aspect of each of these hands is the 2 1/2 + defensive tricks so why encourage an offensive contract by opening?

Winston

[mike777]

Yes playing 14-16 nt has colored my bidding on hands with 15-17nt.

Funny side story, just played in tourney, I opened my usual junky 11 balanced hand, pard bid 3nt with his balanced 13 hcp, I played hand. While I am thinking to trick one..he starts telling me "how can you open 11 hcp balanced hand...all during the play for the opp to see

Luckily this one time I made 4 on fake squeeze, rub of the green.

[pclayton]

I actually held Hand #2 and passed.

The auction took a hilarious turn. LHO opens a green weak 2 in 3rd, pard overcalls 2♠ and RHO bids 3♦. I chose 4♦ (this hand is looking REAL good at this point) and I heard FIVE NO TRUMP FROM PARD.

Amazing I thought! Pard can only squeak out a 2♠ overcall and now he;s making grand slam noises? I bid 6♥ (A or K or trump) and we played 6♠. I knew my AK♥ were totally garbage here. Well, no they weren't.

Pard held: Axxxx, void, Axx, AKxxx. Yeah he's a maniac! Spades were 3-2 in the pocket and clubs were 3-2. Easy game this bridge .

My RHO who played in the Bermuda Bowl, said it 'wouldn't occur to him to pass my hand'.

Really? I thought. How much stronger or weaker is the hand without that crappy J♦? And how much better is the hand if it holds the 10 rather than the J?

Here's the K and R:

A: 12.0

B: 11.7

C: 11.55

D: 11.4

Seems to agree with my hand evaluation. But its amazing how a random Jack can swing some player's view of these hands, even though here the J♦ instead of the 10♦ adds all of .15 of a point to the hand .

[MickyB]

I'm sure a lot of people are getting fed up with me saying this, but....

Don't use K+R for evaluating hands primarily looking to play 3NT.

Binky Count says, for play in NT, these hands are worth approximately:

A - 12.1
B - 11.8
C - 11.2
D - 10.9

[pbleighton]

"Really? I thought. How much stronger or weaker is the hand without that crappy DJ?"

Sometimes half a stopper is better than none

Peter

[Double !]

MickyB, on Oct 9 2005, 05:10 PM, said:

Binky Count says, for play in NT, these hands are worth approximately:

Not familiar with this method of hand evaluation.

I thought that "Binky" is either a baby's blanket or a pacifier. Therefore, Binky count might be a measure of how many of these items are missing around the house!


DHL