[han]

When practicing the MisIry convention online with cherdano, we got fed up with the "bumping" problem. When opener has a 2-suiter it never includes the suit he is transfering into. Therefore, responder is likely to have a fair amount of cards in that suit, and often wants to raise the preempt, so responder is often preempting partner.

We came up with the following modification (I actually changed it again Arend, I think that you'll see why):

When holding a suitable 2-suiter, opener transfers into one of the suits he holds, and either has the suit he bid or spades (with 2NT being hearts):

2NT is either weak with clubs OR strong with clubs and and a major.
3C is either weak with diamonds OR strong with diamonds and a black suit.
3D is either weak with hearts OR strong with hearts and a pointed suit.

Using this structure, responder is less likely to hold many cards in the suit opener is preempting, and when he does, he automatically has a good fit for one of the two suits (so you are not overboard when he does raise).

What are the disadvantages?

1) Since the opponents know for certain one of the suits that opener has, it should be easier for them to defend. Is this true?

2) Responder will get to declare more contracts. It is not clear to me that this is a disadvantage. In fact, I think that more often you want responder to declare. The deadliest lead is most likely in one of opener's short suits, and responder is more likely to hold tenaces in those suits. Also, often opener's hand is better known than responder's.

What do you think, how does this compare to "standard" MisIry?

[Blofeld]

Having not played either my gut feeling is that in the modified system it will be harder to disentangle the strong and weak variants in competitive auctions. But most of the time this should be copable with (if opener never bids again with the weak hands).

It's a nice idea, though. I'd like to see how it compares to the original MisIry (and I'd like to actually try playing one or both methods at some point).

[han]

It won't be harder to untangle in competitive auctions: if opener takes a call then she has the strong version. With the weak version pass.

[awm]

I seem to recall making this same suggestion around the time Ben first posted Misiry. It didn't seem to get much support, with the main reason being that opponents "know" one of the suits and can therefore use that suit as a cuebid without losing anything. The fact that partner also "knows" one of the suits and can raise it freely seemed to be discounted.

Having watched you and Ben play Misiry several times online, I have to say that it doesn't seem to work in practice nearly as well as it works with the various example hands and hypothetical auctions you and Ben have provided on BBO forums. Frequently the issues seem to be either:

(1) Responder bumps the preempt and all the space goes away.

(2) Someone forgets/misunderstands something about the followups, and the best contract isn't reached.

The first problem should at least be helped by changing the method in the way you describe. Perhaps Ben can restate his objections to that back when it was proposed before (or maybe he's changed his mind by now).

[han]

I agree with your observations Adam. However, I obviously don't understand (and remember) all the follow ups very well yet, so the fact that we don't always do so well is at least partly my fault. Ben is much more comfortable with the convention and can often give easy suggestions for how the best contract could be reached. I'm not going to judge MisIry until I fully understand the convention. If you have the impression that I have been defending or attacking MisIry so far, I didn't intend to.

However, I have to say that I find this the hardest part of Ben's system to learn. Of course, bridge is just a hobby for me, and I have not invested an enormous amount of time. I do think that I'm usually fairly quick in learning and remembering new agreements, and this one is tough for me.

On the upside, when Arend (who probably knows the convention less well than I do) and I were practicing yesterday we were able to bid several grands with great ease, sometimes in just 2 rounds of bidding.

I was also surprised at how many slams and grand slams came up. We were dealt random hands with the only constraint that Arend always had 5-5 shape and at least 16 HCP's. These are obviously powerful hands, but they were even more powerful than I expected. Would you agree with this Arend?

[cherdano]

I agree these hands can be extremely powerful when you are able to find out about the right cards in partner's hand.

I have a lot less experience with MisIry than Han and, obviously, Ben, but still a couple of remarks:

* I think the bouncing was a serious problem, which should be greatly reduced by the change Han is suggesting.
* MisIry hands are more frequent than I thought -- most of the hands with which one would enjoy a jump shift in the second round would qualify. Only few of them would be opened 2♣ by the majority in a poll here.
* I do think that the structure developed by Misho and Ben is a lot more precise in slam bidding than anything else I have seen (esp. when there is no bouncing problem in the first round). I doubt many people could otherwise find out which of responder's side kings would be working, or when xx in opener's second suit is actually useful. (Maybe relay methods can do equally well, I don't know; but of course they are more open to preemption because they start at a lower level.) The key is that responder is more or less in control: After opener has announced his number of losers, responder and opener cooperate in finding the number of working covers in responder's hand, and responder can set the contract.
I also think that the auctions Ben gives here in the forums are pretty realistic (that is, if both partners know the system a lot better than me). After all, it is pretty mechanical, and involves little judgement, which makes the usual BBF hindsight slam auctions rather meaningless.
* One problem of MisIry is that sometimes, the 3-level is already too high (when there is no fit).
* Another problem is that, obviously, constructive bidding opposite a preempt is a little more difficult.
* I have no idea how MisIry will work in competion, but opener is probably better placed than after opening 2♣, and I doubt it's worse than after opening at the one-level.
* I think MisIry is fun.

Arend

[Blofeld]

cherdano, on Sep 14 2005, 10:01 PM, said:

* I think MisIry is fun.

That's me sold.

[inquiry]

Well, contrary to awm view of how well the practice bidding has gone between me and Hannie using MisIry, I think it has been quite good. And I have the hand records, which I have reviewed to support this view. It is true that the convention is still new to Hannie and so some mistakes were made.

But just for fun, how would you reach 6♥ on the following hand which was from random dealt hands bid by MishovnBg and inquiry in the partnership room. We bid 6♥ with MisIry

xxxx
xxxxx
xx
xx

x
AKxxx
Ax
AKxxx

There are a number of suggested changes to MisIry. Misho has changed openers rebids to show SHORTEST suit on most rebids rather than the need for a cover or not lowest side suit. In somecases he can show rather it is singleton or void. He likes this approach, I do not. For instance, a singleton ACE is treated the same as a singleton, and sometimes you have two short suits (two singletons or even two voids). Hannie as you see has gone with a change in the suit transferred too, to solve one problem, but which introduces a new one.

Let's deal with one of the new problems...with this change (it is similar to the bump problem played my way).

3D (pass) 4H

On the plus side, you are in your heart fit, and if you are weak, all is well with the world. In fact, normal misiry would go the same way when opener is weak. So we will call it a tie with weak hand for opener. But now let's turn to strong hands. Opener has yet to show his second suit (we know it is spades or diamonds), and he has yet to show his loser count. Can this be a problem? Sure, responder may have zero tricks, raising the preempt, or he may a misfitting values where he hoped to make game opposite a normal preempt in hearts but that slam would be long shot against the misfitting values if it is two suiter. Or he may indeed have a hand strong fitting hand.

So if opener holds
x
AKxxx
xx
AKxxx

And bids on, you may well catch patern with something like (if you would settle for three wit this hand add whatever you need to bid on...

xxx
xxx
Qx
xxxx

or maybe with

x
QJxx
QJTxx
xxx

The problem of how to continue facing a "Bump" is just as annoying, espeically if you realize that the bump suit maynot be your best fit. But I will allow how these problems are less frequent than in normal MisIry.

Against that is the "problems" you present the opponents with the either/or nature of the opening original misIry. It is not so clear that your opponents uncertainy as to what suit(s) you hold is advantage or not, and even if it is whether it worth more than the "solution' to the bump problem. Bridge is about choosing conventions that fit you "lifestyle", by that I mean ones that you feel comfortable with. If you are not comfortable with the bump nature of the original misIry, by all means adopt the two way version you propose here. Either way, you will get the clarification on all the hands where you do NOT open MisIry with 1 of a suit or 2♣ by removing the "strong" two suiters from the mix.

I have examined hands using misho's short suit showing response versus covers needed in the lowest side suit, and found I like my approach there better. I have not tested this modification of MisIry (always hold transfer suit) yet to know if I like it or not.

Ben

[Echognome]

On the plus side, I think this modified version of Misiry would be allowed currently at Level 4 in the EBU (since it shows 4 cards in a known suit). I have applied for the original version to be allowed at Level 4 in the new Orange Book.