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two-part question:
-what would you do if you have no special agreements?
-what would you do in your own sci-fi 21st-century killer Polish variant?
they preempted us again!
#1
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2014-October-18, 09:00
two-part question:
-what would you do if you have no special agreements?
-what would you do in your own sci-fi 21st-century killer Polish variant?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#2
- 5-level belongs to me
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Posted 2014-October-18, 10:08
gwnn, on 2014-October-18, 09:00, said:
- 2N = 10, 2♦ = 9, Double = 8. 2♥ = 7, 3N = 6 1N = 5. (3N is playable opposite a bal Yarborough xxxx xxx xxx xxx).
- Double = 10, 2N = 9, 2♥ (forcing) = 8, 3N = 7, 2♦ = 6. 1N = 5. (Strong protective doubles are often "off-shape").
This post has been edited by nige1: 2014-October-20, 08:46
#3
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Posted 2014-October-18, 12:34
In my pet version of polish club, I bid 2♥ on this. Shows something like a strong 2 in hearts.
Ok the suit should be better, but this will have to do.
Ok the suit should be better, but this will have to do.
#4
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Posted 2014-October-18, 15:02
2♥ showing the strong ♥ version. The other alternative is 1NT but I don't like that. All other bids are from coocoo-land!
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#5
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Posted 2014-October-18, 22:07
2H, what else?
#6
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Posted 2014-October-18, 23:05
2♥. Agree with Frederick that everything else is silly.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#7
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Posted 2014-October-19, 00:48
gwnn, on 2014-October-18, 09:00, said:
-what would you do if you have no special agreements?
Do you use "standard" agreements? If the answer is no, I abstain and refuse to play this system.
#8
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2014-October-19, 01:18
johnu, on 2014-October-19, 00:48, said:
Do you use "standard" agreements? If the answer is no, I abstain and refuse to play this system.
Well, 1H/S would be at least 15+, 1NT is 18-20, 2NT is 21-23, 2D is unclear (I guess it should be GF? but no agreement), double is takeout with a strong hand. I don't know if this is standard.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#9
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Posted 2014-October-19, 02:11
johnu, on 2014-October-19, 00:48, said:
Do you use "standard" agreements? If the answer is no, I abstain and refuse to play this system.
"Standard" agreements here means, I suppose, "common sense" or "undiscussed bids are natural". In which case 2♥ fits the purpose as well.
#10
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Posted 2014-October-19, 02:13
gwnn, on 2014-October-19, 01:18, said:
Well, 1H/S would be at least 15+, 1NT is 18-20, 2NT is 21-23, 2D is unclear (I guess it should be GF? but no agreement), double is takeout with a strong hand. I don't know if this is standard.
2D would be natural, strong. This is to stop psyches where they end up playing in your suit undoubled.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#11
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2014-October-19, 02:23
2♦ as natural, interesting, thanks!
I did indeed bid 2♥ but we missed a game that everyone else bid, when partner held:
xxx
Qx
xxxx
Kxxx
(LHO held all the relevant points and only 4 diamonds).
Was partner worth a 3♥ bid? Matchpoints (I think I forgot to mention this before!!)
I did indeed bid 2♥ but we missed a game that everyone else bid, when partner held:
xxx
Qx
xxxx
Kxxx
(LHO held all the relevant points and only 4 diamonds).
Was partner worth a 3♥ bid? Matchpoints (I think I forgot to mention this before!!)
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#12
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2014-October-19, 03:11
Everything should be the same as after 1♣-p-1♦-p, so presumably 2♦ is an artificial game-force and 2♥ is strong but non-forcing. If you do bid 2♥ I think partner has a clear 3♥ bid. ♥Q and ♣K are quite likely to be worth two tricks and two entries.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#13
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2014-October-19, 03:17
We said
1♣-1♦
2♥ shows an Acol two with 8-8.5 tricks and a decent suit. I have no idea how many tricks this is, but presumably right around there (counting the hearts as 4?? and adding a bit for the two jacks and our pessimism in the heart suit) - but of course it would typically be based on better hearts and less high cards. I guess it does make sense to treat it as just 1C-1D; ?? but Mr Hog also has a point. Thanks everyone for participating. It is always nice to see that I am right and my partner mucked up. Just kidding + it wasn't such an awesome game anyway on the auction.
1♣-1♦
2♥ shows an Acol two with 8-8.5 tricks and a decent suit. I have no idea how many tricks this is, but presumably right around there (counting the hearts as 4?? and adding a bit for the two jacks and our pessimism in the heart suit) - but of course it would typically be based on better hearts and less high cards. I guess it does make sense to treat it as just 1C-1D; ?? but Mr Hog also has a point. Thanks everyone for participating. It is always nice to see that I am right and my partner mucked up. Just kidding + it wasn't such an awesome game anyway on the auction.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#14
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Posted 2014-October-19, 05:39
I really don't see how you could have drove to 3-level on a moth-eaten suit.
If 2♥ always shows 6 cards, then I think pard should have done something. Otherwise (i.e. if it shows just 5) it's hard to blame him.
If 2♥ always shows 6 cards, then I think pard should have done something. Otherwise (i.e. if it shows just 5) it's hard to blame him.
#15
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Posted 2014-October-19, 09:17
I might be being a bit thick, but shouldn't 1♥ be pretty strong in this auction?
Not saying I would do it on this hand, obviously, but it affect what the baseline for 2♥ should be. Not sure it shows this hand though, since the hand is shrieking no trumps.
Not saying I would do it on this hand, obviously, but it affect what the baseline for 2♥ should be. Not sure it shows this hand though, since the hand is shrieking no trumps.
#16
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Posted 2014-October-19, 09:48
I might bid 1♥ on some 2425 17-count and obviously also with an 18-count with five hearts.
Could partner have a 3334 9-count without a diamond stop? In that case I would also bid 1♥ with a 1435 16-count.
If 2♦ is natural (I didn't think of that, but it makes sense) then 2♥ is forcing. I think this hand may just be worth a forcing 2♥ bid but it's borderline.
Without agreements I think I would bid 1♥. 2♥ can't be wrong but I wouldn't know if partner takes it as forcing or not. 2NT would not be unreasonable either.
In my own sci-fi system I still bid 1♥.
If you bid 2♥ there is no way partner is stopping below game with such a nice hand.
Could partner have a 3334 9-count without a diamond stop? In that case I would also bid 1♥ with a 1435 16-count.
If 2♦ is natural (I didn't think of that, but it makes sense) then 2♥ is forcing. I think this hand may just be worth a forcing 2♥ bid but it's borderline.
Without agreements I think I would bid 1♥. 2♥ can't be wrong but I wouldn't know if partner takes it as forcing or not. 2NT would not be unreasonable either.
In my own sci-fi system I still bid 1♥.
If you bid 2♥ there is no way partner is stopping below game with such a nice hand.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#17
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2014-October-19, 10:30
Why can't I just have x AJxx Kxx AKxxx for 1♥? Well maybe it's a bad idea to let them find their spade fit, partner should have introduced his hearts with any 7-count or better.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#18
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Posted 2014-October-19, 22:28
PhilKing, on 2014-October-19, 09:17, said:
I might be being a bit thick, but shouldn't 1♥ be pretty strong in this auction?
Not saying I would do it on this hand, obviously, but it affect what the baseline for 2♥ should be. Not sure it shows this hand though, since the hand is shrieking no trumps.
Not saying I would do it on this hand, obviously, but it affect what the baseline for 2♥ should be. Not sure it shows this hand though, since the hand is shrieking no trumps.
1H would show about 17-19 with 5 cards. I think the given hand is too strong for 1H. I agree that after 2H North should raise to 3.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#19
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Posted 2014-October-20, 10:27
gwnn, on 2014-October-19, 10:30, said:
Why can't I just have x AJxx Kxx AKxxx for 1♥? Well maybe it's a bad idea to let them find their spade fit, partner should have introduced his hearts with any 7-count or better.
Yeah p will mostly have 0-6 points, or 7 points without a 4-card major. So with 1-2 spades it is better to pass. But make the hand a king stronger.... Maybe we can just bid 1NT with that hand, not ideal, but it allows 1♥ to promise five.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#20
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Posted 2014-November-12, 08:24
Polish club is a fine system, however, Fantunes Lite is a Little better as all one of a suit are forcing one round. If you are interested in a playable Fantunes system visit www.fanfantunes.n.nu
two-part question:
-what would you do if you have no special agreements?
-what would you do in your own sci-fi 21st-century killer Polish variant?