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1D-(2D)-? 7 J1074 Q95 AJ832

#1 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 16:22



The 2 overcall is 5-5 in clubs and either major. Feel free to answer according to your own preferred agreements.
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#2 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 16:35

How would one ask about the major?

Edit: misread the auction. Mentally inserted a pass.

This post has been edited by BunnyGo: 2011-June-24, 16:57

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#3 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 16:54

View PostBunnyGo, on 2011-June-24, 16:35, said:

How would one ask about the major?

Turn to your left and say "Which major does your partner have?" :P
Anyway I would double. I hope partner will think I want to penalize them in at least one of their suits.
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#4 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 17:15

I'd pass. If you double, partner will play you for a hand stronger than the one you have, and your clubs aren't even that good anyway.
OK
bed
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#5 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 22:17

I'd pass too
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#6 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 02:06

Pass, hopefully we can double 2S for takeout.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#7 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 05:20

looks like opps have at least an 8 card fit. Since they are uncertain about the majors 3 should make it harder for the opps to find both level and strain.
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#8 User is offline   daveharty 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 07:15

View Postjjbrr, on 2011-June-24, 17:15, said:

I'd pass. If you double, partner will play you for a hand stronger than the one you have, and your clubs aren't even that good anyway.

Maybe you're right, but unless partner is a really light opener in this position, we have at least half the deck on a possible misfit hand; isn't that the ideal time to be defending? Didn't see whether this was MP or IMPs, that might factor in my decision.
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#9 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 12:46

View Postpooltuna, on 2011-June-25, 05:20, said:

looks like opps have at least an 8 card fit. Since they are uncertain about the majors 3 should make it harder for the opps to find both level and strain.


Maybe, but maybe 3 will make it harder for pd to find the right level and strain as well.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 13:01

I agree with 3. The opponents are playing stupid methods, so make them pay for it.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 13:34

What's so stupid about this method? It's even more well-defined than a multi and I bet you wouldn't call multi a stupid method :P
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#12 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 14:28

Actually even the most stupid treatments can work well especially when opps try to take genius actions against it.

IF it turnes out that our pd gets excited at the end thinking we have too many , i am pretty confident opps will have the same thoughts for 3 call, that we had for their methods.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#13 User is offline   nigel_k 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 15:21



Assuming you passed, this is part two.

EDIT: Partner's double is for takeout.
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#14 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 16:47

I take it pard's dbl shows hearts, so now 4. Pass seems to have worked well. Gotta capitalize.

If I'm not sure pard has hearts I'd bid 3 and hope for the best.
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#15 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 00:51

View PostMrAce, on 2011-June-25, 14:28, said:

Actually even the most stupid treatments can work well especially when opps try to take genius actions against it.

IF it turnes out that our pd gets excited at the end thinking we have too many , i am pretty confident opps will have the same thoughts for 3 call, that we had for their methods.

I don't think 3 is a particularly extreme action. Partner will expect four diamonds, but Q9x and a singleton isn't so far away from that.

Can you give me an example of a hand for partner where you think he'll get overexcited?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-June-26, 01:09

I'm either bidding 4H directly, or cuebiding 3S to show some raise, and ready to compete to 5H unless pd X LHO's 4S.
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#17 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 16:15

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-June-25, 13:34, said:

What's so stupid about this method? It's even more well-defined than a multi and I bet you wouldn't call multi a stupid method :P

When you open a Multi:
- You have a narrow range.
- Your hand is weak, so you will rarely have game on.
- You're one-suited.
- The opponents haven't yet exchanged any information.
- All of the opponents' bids are constructive, so it's unlikely that they can preempt you when it's your hand.

When you make this 2 overcall:
- You have a wide range (presumably).
- You will often not be weak, so game is more likely.
- You're two-suited. The number of tricks available with a two-suiter is more dependent on the quality of the fit than with a one-suiter.
- The opponents have already exchanged some information, so there is less preemptive benefit.
- The opponents have weak raises available, so they can preempt when it's your hand.

And I'm not a big fan of the Multi anyway.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#18 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 07:10

gnasher: sorry, but not very impressed by your arguments. You didn't even touch what I think is the most negative thing of the overcall, i.e. the major-suit ambiguity. This rates to be a bit more problematic than in a multi (due to the length being 5 cards only).
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#19 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-June-28, 05:55

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-June-27, 07:10, said:

gnasher: sorry, but not very impressed by your arguments. You didn't even touch what I think is the most negative thing of the overcall, i.e. the major-suit ambiguity. This rates to be a bit more problematic than in a multi (due to the length being 5 cards only).

The game is setup to give a high priority to finding a Major suit fit. So what's the point in creating Major suit ambiguity when it's unnecessary? Isn't it more useful to show at least 1 useful suit (say , the best suit in the game) and leave the ambiguity for less useful suits ( or ). This is basically what "Baileys" does, in combination with unusual 2NT for the lowest suits (which usually have to play at 3-level anyway).
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#20 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-28, 07:49

View PostFree, on 2011-June-28, 05:55, said:

So what's the point in creating Major suit ambiguity when it's unnecessary?


Well, it may not be unnecessary. Suppose you want to keep (1) 3 as preemptive. Then you're only left with

(1) 2
(1) 2NT

to show two-suiters. If you play the 2NT overcall as majors, they you're stuck with the cue as clubs + major. You can also play it the other way around: cue = majors, 2NT = clubs + major.
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