[oryctolagi]

<deleted>

[rhm]

oryctolagi, on 2015-December-08, 03:02, said:

---

My partner was apologetic for his first-round pass, said it was a mis-click (although I think it was a momentary lapse of attention, don't we all get those?!) But I don't claim any credit for my lucky guess...

And what was 3♥ by a passed hand?
A forcing raise?
Don't we all get such momentary lapse of nonsense, but why publish it instead of putting it into the dustbin where it belongs?

Rainer Herrmann

[rhm]

deleted

[oryctolagi]

In that case, I'm done with this forum. Can't argue with the experts.

[wank]

1) i don't know why your partner passed, but he's obviously clueless because he then contented himself with 3H.
2) i think 6h was a pretty poor gamble, despite its success - your partner should be limited to about 10 points and you need at least 7 of those to be in the red suits. you could bid 3 spades and see if partner cuebids 4 clubs. if he doesn't, you're in a much healthier place.
3) you should open this 1 spade. intermediate players often open these hands 1H because they want to reverse into spades. don't do it. reversing always shows that the first suit is longer. if you think you're too good to bid 1S-1x-2h, jump to 3H.

[ggwhiz]

A normal auction could have been fun.

After 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♥ make a help suit game try in clubs!

If partner accepts they have wastage and you probably get to 6♥ but when they don't you have a 30 point deck or thereabouts and key card to the grand.

[rmnka447]

If partner had not slipped, I would see the bidding starting with --

1 ♦ - 1 ♠
?

Now the question is whether opener rebids 2 ♣ or 1 NT. Although I don't usually do it, I think I'd rebid 1 NT here because of how bad the ♣ are. Now NMF will elicit a 2 ♥ response showing 4 ♥. If you play 4 ♣ as a splinter that would be a logical next bid. It should be at least a mild slam try as with just game going values and a stiff ♣ you could just bid 4 ♥.

1 NT - 2 ♣ (NMF)
2 ♥ - 4 ♣ (Splinter)
4 ♦ - 4 ♠

With responder showing shortness in ♣, slam remains a definite possibility, so opener continues with a cooperative 4 ♦ cue. Responder continues with a 4 ♠ cue. Opener can now use RKCB knowing that there's not likely more than 1 loser each in ♣ and ♠.

4 NT - 6 ♣ (even number and ♣ void)

Now opener can invite 7 by bidding 6 ♦ presumably showing ♦ AK. It must also imply holding all the keycards (i.e has to have ♥ A) else opener would simply bid 6 ♥ over 6 ♣. So responder can bid 7 ♥ which is a good contract to be in.

[bb116]

Once partner passed, you are really on a lucky guess bidding 6♥. You needed partner to have A and K of ♦ ,4♥, or A♥+KJ ♦, or A♥+K♦=A♣. All a lot to hope for from a passed hand.
The 3♥ response isn't much help except you can expect 4♥.

A normal auction to me would be: 1♦ by partner, 1♠, 2♣ ( I would not recommend 1NT with a stiff♠ever here. Followed by 2♥ (Now 4th GF) then 3♥, 3♠cue, 4♦, denies club A, 5♣ (first control A or V) 5♦ second round control also, now 6♥ is a certainty and 7 is likely if partner has the A and that is expected as we know 0 HCP in ♠, 7,8 in ♦ and no A♣, so the only hand 7♥ is off is xx xxx AKJx KQxx, which should bring a 2/3NT bid over 2♥, rather than 3♥.

[Zelandakh]

oryctolagi, on 2015-December-08, 05:42, said:

In that case, I'm done with this forum. Can't argue with the experts.

Why do you want to argue? The North hand is a completely normal opening bid in most systems. Better to learn something if you think pass was clear. Having passed, North could splinter. For some, myself included, the North hand is actually too strong for a normal splinter but having passed initially it is going to be impossible to show more strength than the splinter would. As an unpassed hand, a maxi-splinter would be a good description.

As wank pointed out, it is good practice to open 1♠ with 2 5-card major suits, even if, unlike here, the heart suit is stronger. There are systems where it is normal to do things differently but these are the exception and almost all natural methods prefer to start with a spade.

[wank]

Zelandakh, on 2015-December-09, 07:27, said:

Why do you want to argue?

he was presumably referring to something naughty in rhm's deleted post.

[zillahandp]

Giv en partner inexlicably passed 1heart is wrong, you have game in your hand (only three losers) open 2c and then construct a reasonable bidding sequence. If p had open ed and you hav a three loser hand on ltc 7+ 3 = 10 from 18 leaves eight so eight hearts appears to be a reasonable nable contract!

[manudude03]

Ironically, it might actually be easier to get to the grand after partner mistakenly passed. 1S-2D-2H-3C*-3D-3H followed by cuebids should see you there (-3S-4D-4S-5D-5N**-6C**-7H perhaps with South expecting something like xx Axxx AKxx xxx).

* Admittedly, bidding 3C instead of 4H is a little farfetched, but I think you need to do something to try and say you have opening points and not an upgraded sub-min.
** grand slam force (reply showing 1 of top 3 hearts)

Playing normally, it is pretty tough to get to the grand, though I think after the auction starts 1D-1S-2C-2H-3H, 5C should be exclusion KC for hearts. Now, partner isn't guaranteed to have AK of diamonds by any means, but it seems a reasonable gamble to assume they have at least 1 top diamond. Now 5S-6C-6D should give south enough info to bid 7H with confidence.

I can't believe I have read a suggestion to open 2C (you do NOT have game in hand- not even close, partner puts down xxx xxx xxx xxxx - I even gave you a double fit ) or for a 1H response to 1D with 5-5 in the majors.

[Lovera]

I agree with rhm when said :and what was 3♥ by a passed hand ? A forcing raise ? This hand seems to me interesting if we put that S RKB having answer of two Aces w/o Q and subsequently query about Kings estabilishes AK in diamond and willing to look for a grand. Than after the eventual 6♥ N with the Ace of trump should bid seven.

[manudude03]

Lovera, on 2015-December-09, 15:16, said:

Than after the eventual 6♥ N with the Ace of trump should bid seven.

Why? You would have already shown it when you replied to RKC. Though maybe North and South would deserve each other then.

[Lovera]

manudude03, on 2015-December-09, 15:37, said:

Why? You would have already shown it when you replied to RKC. Though maybe North and South would deserve each other then.

It because i have void in club considered like an Ace but that makes me thinking N can have AK ♦ and A ♣.

[Zelandakh]

Lovera, on 2015-December-09, 15:51, said:

It because i have void in club considered like an Ace but that makes me thinking N can have AK ♦ and A ♣.

So N bids 7 because S holds a useful void....sounds like an interesting system.

[manudude03]

Zelandakh, on 2015-December-09, 16:36, said:

So N bids 7 because S might have a useful void....sounds like an interesting system.

FYP

[Lovera]

Infact RKB with a void can have any form of ambiguity.

[manudude03]

Lovera, on 2015-December-09, 19:23, said:

Infact RKB with a void can have any form of ambiguity.

And that isn't any of your partner's business. There is a reason beginners are taught not to bid RKC with a void.

[ncohen]

Not only a silly topic -- a gross misbid to start the auction -- but a silly title. The grand makes if hts 2-2 or 3-1 with spades 4-3 or Ds 3-3 or DJ doubleton. It even makes with 4-0 hearts and 4-3 spades or 3-3 diamonds. May not have the entries to dummy to make if DJ is doubleton, unless the hand with 4 trumps has 4 small. So, it's consider is better than 90%.