[Lord Molyb]

---

3♦ is a positive response.

[SteveMoe]

4♠. Partner made a slam try. Let's cooperate.

[fromageGB]

I can't image making those bids without agreement as to what they and continuations mean. I assume 4♥ is a control with diamonds as assumed trumps, so on that basis ask for aces with 4NT and bid 7NT if all are there, 6NT if two, 5♦ if one. If 4NT would be natural, I bid 4♠.

[PhilKing]

fromageGB, on 2013-September-15, 11:32, said:

I can't image making those bids without agreement as to what they and continuations mean. I assume 4♥ is a control with diamonds as assumed trumps, so on that basis ask for aces with 4NT and bid 7NT if all are there, 6NT if two, 5♦ if one. If 4NT would be natural, I bid 4♠.

If there is no agreement, shouldn't 4♥ show, of all things, hearts?

If partner has diamonds, he can bid, er, diamonds.

[fromageGB]

PhilKing, on 2013-September-15, 11:56, said:

If there is no agreement, shouldn't 4♥ show, of all things, hearts?

If partner has diamonds, he can bid, er, diamonds.

This doesn't seem likely, responder to an unspecified 2♣ insisting on showing 2 suits without first hearing of his partner's hand, But if he did, surely he would bid hearts first, so 4♦ as his second suit clearly allows opener to do something in a forcing environment.

It seems much more likely that he has a good single-suiter than he wants opener to pass or convert to 5♦.

[fromageGB]

I think it also depends on related agreements. Does he have a method of showing a slam hand in diamonds if he made a "normal" reply to 2♣ (is there an "nonspecific" positive, or a waiting 2♦?) and opener rebid 3NT? If opener rebid a suit after a "normal" reply, can responder show a suit?

[PhilKing]

fromageGB, on 2013-September-15, 12:10, said:

This doesn't seem likely, responder to an unspecified 2♣ insisting on showing 2 suits without first hearing of his partner's hand, But if he did, surely he would bid hearts first, so 4♦ as his second suit clearly allows opener to do something in a forcing environment.

It seems much more likely that he has a good single-suiter than he wants opener to pass or convert to 5♦.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against agreeing that this sequence is a cue bid. But without agreement, it is natural, unlikely though that may be.

[ggwhiz]

6nt. We are off the club Ace and may miss 7♦ opposite a void but I don't like partners 4♥ bid if that's the case.

[rmnka447]

Let's see -- the missing honors are ♠ Q ♥ A ♦ KQJ ♣ AJ.

Partner has made a positive response at the 3 level and followed it up by bidding a second suit. (♥s must be a second suit because with ♦s alone, 4 ♦ would be a slam try.) It seems to me that partner is marked at a minimum with the ♥ A and ♦ KQ(J)xx.

I'm bidding 6 NT.

[FrancesHinden]

Partner seems to have 4-6 in the reds. I can't see why 4H would not be natural here, why would I want it to mean anything else?
(I play 3D as forcing to 4NT, by the way)

So I would just bid 4NT. I have a minimum hand, only a doubleton diamond, only 3 hearts and the minimum number of controls. If we are making a slam, partner will bid it now (in fact 6NT is quite a likely call from him at this point) but I can't see why I have to bid it.

It's hugely unlikely that partner will pass this, but if he's got some miracle hand like Qxx Axxx KQJxxx - we have some hope of finding this out by going slowly.

[cherdano]

fromageGB, on 2013-September-15, 12:10, said:

This doesn't seem likely, responder to an unspecified 2♣ insisting on showing 2 suits without first hearing of his partner's hand, But if he did, surely he would bid hearts first, so 4♦ as his second suit clearly allows opener to do something in a forcing environment.

It's quite a common agreement to bid the longer of two long suits first. I find it quite a useful convention, as it helps to distinguish between, say, 6=4 or 4=6 hands in hearts=diamonds.

[DJNeill]

4N. I tend to be conservative without a fit. If partner rebids 5D I will Pass - they might have been pushing the envelope hoping for a fit. This is a difficult problem.

[mikeh]

Let's see: we have shown a hand worth about 22-24 hcp, with no 5 card suit and no ability or desire to push past 3N over the space consuming 3♦. What is it about our hand that has changed?

4N.

What is it that he won't understand should we continue to make descriptive calls that match our hand?

[Fluffy]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-September-15, 14:36, said:

only a doubleton diamond

Minimum would be void on any hand with long clubs, doubleton honor is more like the maximum we can have. 3♦ is a slam forward bid, not raising with 3 diamonds doesn't exist IMO.

♥KQJ are also golden. If partner has ♥Axxx, ♦K and another card we are big favourites in 6NT, so I would colaborate with 4♠.

[mcphee]

Wow, to me this is a very good hand partner holds and I do not think he has H and nor do I care much. For partner to leap to 3D I can't expect much less than KQ 6th in D and the A of H,(perhaps short H and the A of C)but logical to me is to bid stayman holding a 4 major along with a 6 card minor. I am not fond of the responder bidding a positive 3D with minimums rather than finding out what the 2C hand is based on, and you just can't think partner has done some silly thing.

Mark me down for 4S on my way to 6D or NT.

[PhilKing]

Fluffy, on 2013-September-15, 18:09, said:

Minimum would be void on any hand with long clubs, doubleton honor is more like the maximum we can have. 3♦ is a slam forward bid, not raising with 3 diamonds doesn't exist IMO.

♥KQJ are also golden. If partner has ♥Axxx, ♦K and another card we are big favourites in 6NT, so I would colaborate with 4♠.

Exactly. If pard has ♠xx ♥ATxx ♦KQxxxx ♣x, and we sign off in 4NT, he will assume we have, of all things, a hand that probably cannot make a slam. eg:

♠AKQx
♥KQx
♦xx
♣AKQx

or

♠AKQ
♥KQx
♦x
♣AKJxxx

[FrancesHinden]

Fluffy, on 2013-September-15, 18:09, said:

Minimum would be void on any hand with long clubs, doubleton honor is more like the maximum we can have. 3♦ is a slam forward bid, not raising with 3 diamonds doesn't exist IMO.♥KQJ are also golden. If partner has ♥Axxx, ♦K and another card we are big favourites in 6NT, so I would colaborate with 4♠.

PhilKing, on 2013-September-16, 07:02, said:

Exactly. If pard has ♠xx ♥ATxx ♦KQxxxx ♣x, and we sign off in 4NT, he will assume we have, of all things, a hand that probably cannot make a slam. eg:♠AKQx♥KQx♦xx♣AKQxor♠AKQ♥KQx♦x♣AKJxxx

If I had short diamonds and long clubs then I would bid 4C over 3D. Why would I lie about my hand and show it as balanced when it isn't in a slam auction?

[Fluffy]

I don't use 3NT as a description, I understand it is forcing for you, but for most people it is not.

[Zelandakh]

Something that occurred to me while reading this. Many play that 2♣ - 2♦; 3♥ shows hearts with longer diamonds. Would it also make sense to play that 2♣ - 3♥ is a positive with hearts and longer diamonds? Is there anything better?