[straube]

You are South and dealer. All white. Imps. Your RHO will overcall 1S if available. Your LHO will raise to 2S if available. Still no DN. This deal was played by a local expert pair.

................J5
...............KT75
...............J9
...............AQ754
T42...........................K9876
943...........................A
42.............................7653
KJ832........................T96
...............AQ3
...............QJ862
...............AKQT8
...............void

4H S SCREAM
6H S relknes
6H S Imprecision
6H N Zelandakh
6H N Simple Strong Club
6H S New Big Club
6H S Moscito
6H S Precision by Free
6H N Meckwell Light
6H S mycroft
6H N Polish Club
6H S Silent Club
6H N Jasmine Club

[straube]

 straube, on 2013-January-22, 01:25, said:

You are South and dealer. All white. Imps. Your RHO will overcall 1S if available. Your LHO will raise to 2S if available. Still no DN. This deal was played by a local expert pair.

................J5
...............KT75
...............J9
...............AQ754
T42...........................K9876
943...........................A
42.............................7653
KJ832........................T96
...............AQ3
...............QJ862
...............AKQT8
...............void

SCREAM bids this as...

1C-1D (1S) 16+, GF unbal with major OR bal
2S-2N 5H/5D, ask
3S-4D 3550, puppet terminator
4H

I can't bid this objectively having seen both hands. 4C by opener ask QPs and 4D shows 10 and forces us to at least 5H. 4D (by responder) is puppet terminator and opener will only reject the sign off attempt with 13 QPs (he has 11). I think I would give up at the table. I could find pd with KQx Qxxxx AKQxx in which case we could be off a trump trick. OTOH, this isn't about my personal judgment but system. So fellow relayers...Adam, RobF, Richard, Free, et al...do you ask or sign off? I'll go with the majority.

Edit: You know I think I'm being pretty pessimistic. Pd could have 11 or 12 in which case it's almost a lock.

[awm]

I don't think north can bid past game; he has very few useful cards given south's shape and has already shown game values... also we've seen that you upgrade a lot of 15-counts with this shape. But I guess since you know south will not bid on even with an extra king (as here) maybe you have to? It certainly seems a bad situation for the methods.

[relknes]

 straube, on 2013-January-22, 01:25, said:

You are South and dealer. All white. Imps. Your RHO will overcall 1S if available. Your LHO will raise to 2S if available. Still no DN. This deal was played by a local expert pair.

................J5
...............KT75
...............J9
...............AQ754
T42...........................K9876
943...........................A
42.............................7653
KJ832........................T96
...............AQ3
...............QJ862
...............AKQT8
...............void

1♣ - 2♣
2♥ - 4♥
6♥

Translation:
S: 16+, N: 9+ points, unbalanced, 5+ clubs
S: 4+ hearts, N: 4+ hearts, 0-3 controls
S: punt

This highlights one of the weaknesses of our system, in that south has to guess to go for the slam. We are too high for south to get scientific, because their available questions would be to ask for a specific ace, or to ask for two of the top 3 trump. However, since south only needs North to have one of the top 3 trump to make slam nearly cold, it is a good bet. Still, we'd get too high if responder had, say:

Jxx
xxxx
x
AKJxx

[awm]

IMprecision:

1♣ - 2♦ (strong, 4+♥ and 5+♣ with 5+ hcp and 2-6RP)
2♥ - 3♣ (GF relay, 2425)
4♣ - 4♥ (ask controls outside clubs, one control)
4♠ - 5♣ (relay in case it's spade king, heart king no heart queen)
6♥ - Pass (to play)

Or we could reverse relay (sometimes we do on max semi-balanced hands like this):

1♣ - 1♦ - (1♠)
2♥ - (2♠) - 3♠
5♣ - 5♥
6♥ - Pass

Here 1♦ is double negative or GF, 2♥ is natural, 3♠ is a strong heart raise (anything but pass or 3♥ is GF here), 5♣ is exclusion (south needs very little with a known fit and the spade king highly likely to be on) and 5♥ shows one keycard.

[Zelandakh]

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... - 1NT = hearts or hearts and clubs, GF
2♣ = relay, usually 18+
... - 2♥ = 4 hearts
2♠ = relay
... - 2NT = 5 clubs
3♥ = agrees hearts, SI
... - 3NT = accept slam try, no spade control
4♣ = asking bid
... - 4♦ = club control, no diamond control
5♣ = XRKCB
... - 5♥ = 1 key card
6♥

My (unusual) arrangement to give up 5 level cues for Exclusion works great on hands like this where relaying the hand out is under constant danger of getting too high. I expect the idea to get short shrift from BBFers (who just love pure cue auctions) but my (limited) experience with it has all been positive so far. It fits very well with the denial cue/asking bid concept since you can ask whether there is a control in the void suit, both getting some idea about duplication and potentially being able to switch to normal RKCB if the answer is negative.

Unfortunately the vagaries of the relay auction have wrong-sided the contract. I might go down on a spade lead.

[the_clown]

Simple Strong club:

1♣-1♥ (8-11 any) -(1♠)
2♥-(2♠)-4♣ (fitjump)
5♥-6♥ (5♥ asks for trump quality)

[Hilver]

Hilversumse Klaveren (HK)

1♣ - (p) - 1♦ - (1♠)
2♥ - (2♠) - 3♥ - (p)
3♠ - (p) - 4♣ - (p)
4♦ - (p) - 4♥ - (p)
4NT - (p) - 5♥ - (p)
6♥

Explanation:
1♣ = 16+ (Not a balanced 16-20 HCP)
1♦ = relay
2♥ = 5+-card ♥
3♥ = positive with hearts (The Good hand in Good-Bad)
3♠ = cue
4♣ = cue
4♦ = cue
4NT = RKC
5♥ = 2 keycards

The problem is de clubcue by North. If the cue is the king of clubs, it will be worthless.
But there will not be a lot of losers in spades. Also in diamonds there will not be a lot of losers. So, no problem for South to use RKC. South can afford to play in 5♥. If North has only one keycard them he will sign off in 5♥, if two then 6♥

Jan

[hrothgar]

MOSCITO auction

1♣ - (Pass) - 1♦ - (1♠)
2♥ - (2♠) - 4♣ - (P)
4♥

I don't think I'd find the slam

The 1♦ response establishes an absolute GF.
The 1♠ overcall breaks relays

2♥ is natural and 4♣ is fit showing.

With a void opposite partner's suit, it doesn't seem right for opener to push for slam
Responder doesn't have enough to go looking.

Arguable, South could do more

The spade hook looks to be on.
North should have either the Ace or the King of Hearts for the 4♣ bid.
The only big danger is a third round spade loser which you should be able to ditch on a long diamond.

Could be that South should just bid six

[straube]

 hrothgar, on 2013-January-22, 07:26, said:

MOSCITO auction

1♣ - (Pass) - 1♦ - (1♠)
2♥ - (2♠) - 4♣ - (P)
4♥

I don't think I'd find the slam

The 1♦ response establishes an absolute GF.
The 1♠ overcall breaks relays

2♥ is natural and 4♣ is fit showing.

With a void opposite partner's suit, it doesn't seem right for opener to push for slam
Responder doesn't have enough to go looking.

Arguable, South could do more

The spade hook looks to be on.
North should have either the Ace or the King of Hearts for the 4♣ bid.
The only big danger is a third round spade loser which you should be able to ditch on a long diamond.

Could be that South should just bid six

I think you get there. I'm not sure the best way. Can anyone propose an auction after 4C? Some number of cue bids?

[relknes]

 hrothgar, on 2013-January-22, 07:26, said:

With a void opposite partner's suit, it doesn't seem right for opener to push for slam
Responder doesn't have enough to go looking.

Arguable, South could do more

The spade hook looks to be on.
North should have either the Ace or the King of Hearts for the 4♣ bid.
The only big danger is a third round spade loser which you should be able to ditch on a long diamond.

Could be that South should just bid six

I am not sure why south would be hesitant about bidding 6 after the fit jump, even with a void in partner's suit. The spade hook souldn't even come up, since you have first round control of every non-trump suit, and after the fit jump I assume that partner can't have more than 4 cards in diamonds and spades combined, so they can dump losers on those prety diamonds (thus the ♦AKQ and the ♠A should cover all of partner's diamond and spade losers). All partner needs is the ♥A or the ♥K, and slam should be an excelent bet.

[hrothgar]

 straube, on 2013-January-22, 09:45, said:

I think you get there. I'm not sure the best way. Can anyone propose an auction after 4C? Some number of cue bids?

I don't think that the issue is cue bids, rather losers.

There is at most 1 Heart loser.

If North has two or fewer diamonds, then we get to discard a (possible) losing Spade on the Queen of Diamonds
If North has three plus Diamonds, then the Diamonds should run.

All and all, it looks at if six is a good place to be.
The question is whether there is a compelling way to explore for a grand.

[relknes]

 straube, on 2013-January-22, 09:45, said:

I think you get there. I'm not sure the best way. Can anyone propose an auction after 4C? Some number of cue bids?

Would 3♠ instead of 4♣ be an available bid?

[hrothgar]

 relknes, on 2013-January-22, 09:55, said:

Would 3♠ instead of 4♣ be an available bid?

Nope. 3♠ should be a splinter.

3♥ is natural and forcing, but would suggest a flatter hand.

[straube]

 hrothgar, on 2013-January-22, 09:55, said:

I don't think that the issue is cue bids, rather losers.

There is at most 1 Heart loser.

If North has two or fewer diamonds, then we get to discard a (possible) losing Spade on the Queen of Diamonds
If North has three plus Diamonds, then the Diamonds should run.

All and all, it looks at if six is a good place to be.
The question is whether there is a compelling way to explore for a grand.

I think the issue is heart honors. I was suggesting a cue bidding auction to suggest you may have a void. If you RKC it happens to work because pd has 2 key cards, but if he shows one you won't know whether it's a heart key card or the club ace. I think most play that 5H here asks for control of spades.

So maybe....

4D-4H
4S-5C
5D-6H
or something like that

[hrothgar]

 straube, on 2013-January-22, 10:55, said:

I think the issue is heart honors. I was suggesting a cue bidding auction to suggest you may have a void.

Fit showing jump typically promises a heart honor.
On the cue bidding front, I don't cue bid shortage opposite a suit where partner has shown length.

If you're genuinely worried about the strength of the heart support, jump to 5♥ over 4♣ to confirm trump quality

[straube]

 hrothgar, on 2013-January-22, 11:01, said:

Fit showing jump typically promises a heart honor.
On the cue bidding front, I don't cue bid shortage opposite a suit where partner has shown length.

If you're genuinely worried about the strength of the heart support, jump to 5♥ over 4♣ to confirm trump quality

Right. I didn't propose for opener to cue bid in clubs.

So maybe put you down for

1C-1D (1S)
2H(2S)-4C
5H-6H

[straube]

Richard, how about help with my auction. Do you risk 4C or not? Thanks.

[Free]

1♣-2♣ (16+ ; GF unbal with 5+♣)
2♥-3♦ (5+♥ ; 4♥ support)
5♣-5♦ (excl RKC ; 1/4)
6♥

Yes, remarkable as it seems, we have excl blacky available even if partner showed a 5 card suit. Responder doesn't need good ♣ to bid this way and there's no other useful meaning for the jump to 5♣ anyway.

I don't share the pessimism Richard has. We have 4 top tricks in ♦+♠, so we don't have immediate losers there. If ♥ and ♦ behave a little bit, slam will be easy.

[JLOGIC]

1C 1H (1S) (strong, 8-11)
2S 3H (michaels, I do not have any agreements on how we play over this michaels. I would expect 3m to be nat, can we bid 2N with a heart fit? Should we always bid 2N? Should 3H imply a strong heart fit since north didn't ask for the minor? All things I need to discuss with my partners since I have no idea.)
3N 4C (serious slam try with a spade control, cuebid)
4D 4S (cuebid/last train, keycard)
5H 6H (2 with queen (didn't show void since partner cuebid 4C but this is not 100 %, partner could have AKH, CK. Showing the void eats up a lot of room though)

This shows I need to talk to my partners about this auction though. South never showed his minor. Perhaps 3H should show or imply a 4 card fit since with only 3 hearts north would always be interested in partners minor. Perhaps north should just always ask with 2N. Perhaps 3C should show a heart fit and ask for a minor? If north showed 4 hearts, south would probably just go with exclusion keycard over 3H. Maybe he should anyways, but it is not nearly as clear if north might have 3 hearts.