[Laird]

Hello All

The_Hog posed this problem in the advanced section...

Bidding
(p) p (3h) ?

You Hold

s AKQT9x
h x
d AQx
c Axx

What do you bid and why?

My first thought was Fishbein response of next suit up for take - out or double for penalties.
I was surprised nobody even mentioned it as a posibility in the posted answers.
If I bid 3s it says to partner ... give me some help and we have something on. The opponnents may extend the 3h pre-empt to 4 or 5 level. However with some help from partner a game or slam may be possible in the other suits or a double for penalties.
Is Fishbein a discredited response these days or does it not fulfil the requirements of advanced players for some reason?

John

[the hog]

John, Fishbein has gone the way of all old things, like my fitness, waistline, etc etc.

Seriously it is not a useful convention. t/o Xs are far more useful. In my youth we played cmobdor (Cheaper m over black, X over red). This is no where near as efficient as a t/o x. Anyway a t/o X is a transfer bid - it transfers the blame if pd gets it wrong.

Xs are usually meant to be taken out. If you can work out "The Law" of total tricks there may be times you decide to leave it in. On the hand I posted, a Fishbein bid would be an abomination - you have a good S suit; you have a decent tactical bid to make given the vulnerability.

Also if you make a Fishbein bid, pd will be very loath to pass this with crap, as the bid does not promise a genuine suit.

[inquiry]

Hi John,

Fishbein was invented to solve one problem, but created at least three more. The first, and maybe major problem, is that on the auction you proposed,

(3H)-3S <---- the 3S bid would not show spades, but would be "takeout". Of course, if partner had spades an a yucky hand, this 3S might be followed by PPP.

Another problem with Fishbein is it leaves the final decision of to defend (DBL) or takeout (3S) up to one partner and one partner only. The Fishbein player in the direct seat decides to defend or to play the hand with his bid. A (3H)-DBL playing Fishbein MUST BE LEFT IN by your partner.

Finally, another problem with Fishbein is a reopening double in the balanced seat, at least in the original Fishbein, was not allowed. So if in the balance seat, you wanted to crush the preempt, you couldn't do it.... and your partner (if you wanted to crush it) would be short in the suit and would not have doubled...he would have either bid 3S for takeout or passed.

Fishbein goes back to the time were a lot, if not most, people played dbl of high level preempts for penalty. At least it is better than that. But the takeout double has proven to be the most flexible way to treat preemptive bids (remember, takeout doubles can be passed). If you read Master Solver's club type contest, you will see that experts simply don't play Fishbein.

Ben

[Cave_Draco]

A double of 3C is, almost, always take-out; a double of 4S is, almost, always penalty. There is a sliding scale in between.

You could play Fishbein on that hand but you would need a partnership understanding of 4H & 4S overcalls! i.e. 4S = single-suited, Spades; 4H = two-suited, Spades & a minor.

If you play Fishbein, on that hand, you have to bid 4S! You are not asking partner a question.