[Gerben42]

A declarer in the top national German league has to play 7NT on a ♠ lead:

---

With little time on the clock, he claims 13 tricks without further explanation. What will it be, made or down?

[pran]

Gerben42, on 2011-February-13, 15:08, said:

A declarer in the top national German league has to play 7NT on a ♠ lead:

---

With little time on the clock, he claims 13 tricks without further explanation. What will it be, made or down?

At a lower level I might rule down one, but in the top league I would give him the contract:
All three finesses work as do all possible squeeze variants.

[FrancesHinden]

I don't understand this. He claims without stating a line in a contract which needs fairly careful management to make it. Why should the director be forced to play the hand for him? I don't care what level he's in, a claim with no explanation does not get 13 tricks. Particularly if it's his side's fault that he's in time difficulties, I think it's dreadful to claim here.

[blackshoe]

Players are never going to learn to state a line of play if you give them their claims when they don't.

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2011-February-13, 16:35, said:

Players are never going to learn to state a line of play if you give them their claims when they don't.

I tried to find a "normal" line of play giving only 12 tricks but failed.

Honestly, I do not consider just cashing the 12 "Aces" normal for a player in the top league (and hardly "normal" for a player at lower levels if the player knows simple squeezes).

[jallerton]

pran, on 2011-February-13, 17:03, said:

I tried to find a "normal" line of play giving only 12 tricks but failed.

Honestly, I do not consider just cashing the 12 "Aces" normal for a player in the top league (and hardly "normal" for a player at lower levels if the player knows simple squeezes).

Doesn't it make a difference in what order he cashes his 12 "aces"? Suppose that he plays his 4 real aces at tricks 1 to 4 than plays a heart to the King. Now he is off when East discards on the 2nd heart.

[blackshoe]

If I become convinced (I'm not, yet) that I should rule contract made, then I'm giving him a PP for failure to state a line of play.

[cherdano]

pran, on 2011-February-13, 15:29, said:

At a lower level I might rule down one, but in the top league I would give him the contract:
All three finesses work as do all possible squeeze variants.

If declarer realized he might need to finesse or to play for squeezes, then he probably wouldn't have claimed!

[alphatango]

pran, on 2011-February-13, 15:29, said:

At a lower level I might rule down one, but in the top league I would give him the contract:
All three finesses work as do all possible squeeze variants.

Well, almost all the finesses are working. Overtake the spade lead, draw all trumps (West pitching one diamond and two clubs), heart A, heart K -- oops, East pitches a club. Now DA, DQ for the ruffing finesse...one off.

[Bbradley62]

alphatango, on 2011-February-14, 00:50, said:

Well, almost all the finesses are working. Overtake the spade lead, draw all trumps (West pitching one diamond and two clubs), heart A, heart K -- oops, East pitches a club. Now DA, DQ for the ruffing finesse...one off.

There are no ruffing finesses in 7NT.

[pran]

jallerton, on 2011-February-13, 17:21, said:

Doesn't it make a difference in what order he cashes his 12 "aces"? Suppose that he plays his 4 real aces at tricks 1 to 4 than plays a heart to the King. Now he is off when East discards on the 2nd heart.

Do you consider this "normal" play at this level? I don't.

blackshoe, on 2011-February-13, 19:12, said:

If I become convinced (I'm not, yet) that I should rule contract made, then I'm giving him a PP for failure to state a line of play.

I might too.

cherdano, on 2011-February-13, 20:43, said:

If declarer realized he might need to finesse or to play for squeezes, then he probably wouldn't have claimed!

I agree, but the TD must consider the possible situations that will develop during the different possible lines of "normal" play.

alphatango, on 2011-February-14, 00:50, said:

Well, almost all the finesses are working. Overtake the spade lead, draw all trumps (West pitching one diamond and two clubs), heart A, heart K -- oops, East pitches a club. Now DA, DQ for the ruffing finesse...one off.

I don't agree this is "normal" play at top level. A player at this level will just pull opponents' trumps and maybe cash AK in hearts. When East shows out on the second heart he will cash one of the minor aces and return to his own hand with a third heart, then run his trumps to the bottom and play for either a squeeze or a finessee in the minor suit where he still holds AQ.

This to me is automatic at top level, not neccessarily at lower levels (note my remark in my first comment), and it will work out regardless of what the player selects.

[mrdct]

Just to be clear here - the original post did say the contract was 7NT so there is no possibility of declarer going astray with a ruffing finese in ♦.

The fast claim omitting the clarification statement is understandable given the time constraints so I'm going to be leniant on that point.

To go dwon in 7NT requires declarer to cash both minor Aces before getting ♥ wrong which I assume in this league would go beyond the requirement of "careless but not irrational". Accordingly, given that all lines shy of prematurely and unnecessarily cashing the minor aces result in 13 tricks I rule that 7NT makes.

[gordontd]

pran, on 2011-February-13, 17:03, said:

I tried to find a "normal" line of play giving only 12 tricks but failed.

Well, he might start by running off all his spade winners, and now he's not in such good shape.

[mrdct]

gordontd, on 2011-February-14, 03:27, said:

Well, he might start by running off all his spade winners, and now he's not in such good shape.

That's a pretty good point - such a line would certainly be careless but I don't think you could say it's irrational.

I've changed my mind - 7NT-1.

[ahydra]

mrdct, on 2011-February-14, 04:21, said:

gordontd, on 2011-February-14, 04:27, said:

Well, he might start by running off all his spade winners, and now he's not in such good shape.

That's a pretty good point - such a line would certainly be careless but I don't think you could say it's irrational.

I've changed my mind - 7NT-1.

Why would he be in a bad shape? Throw a heart and 4D, and then no matter which minor suit Q he throws on the last spade the finesse in the other minor works (after he tries to cash 4 hearts but finds he can only make 3). I think it would count as "irrational" to throw a 2nd heart from dummy and block them.

ahydra

[bluejak]

pran, on 2011-February-13, 15:29, said:

At a lower level I might rule down one, but in the top league I would give him the contract:
All three finesses work as do all possible squeeze variants.

If this were true no doubt i would give it to him.

The finesse against East's ♥J fails, as do squeezes against East in the reds or the rounded suits.

I know this is pretty certainly a sure tricks problem but I do not care: I am not going to play a complicated hand for a declarer who cannot be bothered to state a line. Down one.

[dburn]

pran, on 2011-February-14, 01:22, said:

I don't agree this is "normal" play at top level. A player at this level will just pull opponents' trumps

Burn's Third Law states that you cannot make 3NT on a cross-ruff. It is based in part on the lemma, stated here without proof, that you cannot draw trumps if there aren't any.

As to the actual ruling, a strict application of Burn's rules for adjudicating claims suggests down twelve (declarer is bound to win the first trick, but is considered to do that with dummy's ♠A, then pitch ♣A on a low spade from the table, after which he can lose the remainder without difficulty). If this is considered overly Draconian, I might accept down one.

[dburn]

Mind you, I am encouraged to find that my learned colleagues are now of the opinion that it is not the Director's job to play the hand on behalf of someone who has claimed. Hitherto, this has not always been the case.

[suprgrover]

gordontd, on 2011-February-14, 03:27, said:

Well, he might start by running off all his spade winners, and now he's not in such good shape.

Actually, what does West pitch on the spade winners? She has to keep all of her hearts, so she has to bare *both* minor suit Kings. Even I will get the hand right now.

[Vampyr]

pran, on 2011-February-13, 15:29, said:

At a lower level I might rule down one, but in the top league I would give him the contract:
All three finesses work as do all possible squeeze variants.

Then we wonder why average players think that tournament directors operate of the elite, by the elite and for the elite, and wish that they shall perish from this earth.