[matmat]

in the context of 2/1 (or sayc, i guess) what do you think the most useful meaning for 1Z-4NT is? is it different when Z is a minor vs. a major?
what would you assume the meaning to be playing with an expert?

edit...
maybe i should just ask questions more directly... or maybe make a poll... hehe

i expect most people will say it is an ace-ask. but b/c of a few threads i read recently and a few things i've heard/read along the way, it is not clear to me whether a pure aceask or RKC is better, and, which people default to with not explicit agreement and, finally, does it matter whether the suit opened was a minor or a major...

[aguahombre]

A lot of people have ways of establishing the trump suit and then asking for Key cards, thus a direct 4NT just asks for aces. I guess there might be a better use for the direct 4NT, but I think I will stick with asking for aces, unless your "1Z" includes a 1NT opening --then it would be better used for something else, like inviting slam in NT.

[gwnn]

rkc

[effervesce]

An extremely rare hand that only cares about the number of aces (or keycards depending on agreement) that you have.

OTOH it could mean partner doesn't trust you (or himself) to know how to bid.

[Fluffy]

specific ace anyone? with 5NT showing 2 of them. Might help bidding some hands with void in partner's suit.

[ArtK78]

Old fashioned ace-asking Blackwood.

If you want to bid RKC, you make a forcing raise first and then bid 4NT.

This is a useful and not uncommon agreement among experts. I have this agreement with several of my partners, and I had it come up some time ago on a hand that I reported in a thread in this Forum.

http://forums.bridge...topic=29317&hl=

Using this treatment made bidding this hand extremely easy and also produced a useful swing.

[ONEferBRID]

Pinpoint Blackwood

Pinpoint Blackwood is used instead of regular Blackwood or RKC in two situations:
a) an opening bid of 4N and
b ) a response of 4N to an opening bid of 1-of-a-suit bid.

The responses to Pinpoint Blackwood are as follows:

5C = no aces

5D = D-A or 3 aces without the D-A

5H = H-A or 3 aces without the H-A

5S = S-A or 3 aces without the S-A

5N = C-A or 3 aces without the C-A

The next 3 bids show 2 aces using the CRaSh mnemonic for Color, Rank, and Shape

6C = 2 aces, same color, either red or black (D+H or C+S)

6D = 2 aces, same rank, either minor or major (C+D or H+S)

6H = 2 aces, same shape, either pointy or rounded (D+S or C+H)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
as an LOL :
6S = all 4 aces

[Lobowolf]

ArtK78, on Sep 21 2009, 07:59 AM, said:

Old fashioned ace-asking Blackwood.

If you want to bid RKC, you make a forcing raise first and then bid 4NT.

This is a useful and not uncommon agreement among experts. I have this agreement with several of my partners, and I had it come up some time ago on a hand that I reported in a thread in this Forum.

http://forums.bridge...topic=29317&hl=

Using this treatment made bidding this hand extremely easy and also produced a useful swing.

The linked hand is 1♠-4NT. I assumed that since "Z" was the variable listed in the original post, it meant a third bid suit, such as:

1♦-1♥
1♠-4NT. (e.g. 1X-1Y; 1Z-4NT)


I play 1♠-4NT as straight aces, but

1♦-1♥
1♠-4NT. as keycard for spades.

[Jlall]

Conventional wisdom is that 1M p 4N is regular blackwood, but imo this is a mistake. Apart from a keycard ask being at least 20x as common as a regular blackwood response, when you have a true keycard bid you are likely to face preemption if you have to start with your forcing raise, and that will potentially lead to you not being able to bid keycard later so the argument that "you can always start with your forcing raise then bid 4N" doesn't hold true.

Also, sometimes the information that you give away by starting with your forcing raise will help them find a killing lead or possibly the killing defense. That can cost you too over time.

Lastly I feel like your typical "straight aces" hand can bid fairly easily by just starting with a 2/1 and eventually keycarding in it's own suit, and those hands are less vulnerable to preemption.

Anyways most people don't agree with me

[skjaeran]

Justin is probably right in his reasoning.

I'm stuck with conventional wisdom though, at the moment, so straight, aces only, BW for me.

[Free]

RKC for me.

If you really want to fill in a non-existing (or very rare) hole in your system, you can always play 1X-4NT as exclusion blackwood with void X...

[helene_t]

With Shogi this is quanti by virtue of meta-agreement. Of course that's useless, but we haven't bothered to discuss it so we default to the meta-agreement.

With a random adv+ p I would assume RKC. Maybe something else, say exclusion for the suit under the opening suit, would be more useful. Dunno. I think RKC is ok.

Old-fashioned Blackwood is alian to me. 4NT can have four meanings: Quanti, sign-off, scrambling or RKC. Maybe add six-ace BW or general slam try for a minor in some specific situations. It can never be old-fashioned BW to me.