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Post your line ruff&discard can hurt!

#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-April-27, 05:24

Scoring: Chicago


The bidding:

S W N E
1-Ps-1-1
2-2-5-All ps

Defence: K, to the A, and 10 from east, plan from there.
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#2 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-April-27, 10:19

It seems too obvious to discard a and ruff in dummy and go for cross ruff (don't forget to cash the K first)...
I put Q in East, honours are probably split or KQx in East. Why else play in double voids? Small adjustments of the line can occur when it seems that East has no s left.
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Posted 2004-April-28, 07:55

Fluffy, on Apr 27 2004, 06:24 AM, said:

Dealer: South
Vul: E/W
Scoring: Chicago
Q3
AQ9752
 
KJ932
J5
4
AJ742
A10754
S  W  N  E
1-Ps-1-1
2-2-5-All ps

T1, K,
T2. to the A,
T3. 10 from east



Well, the ruff and sluff does nothing to help you. I suspect are not 3-0, and if they are WEST will no be void. The reason being, 2 did little to preempt the bidding, and with a void and support including the king, I expect more aggreesive bidding.

Also, I eye the T with contempt, if EAST is a good player. Why is he telling you the location of the King (not that we really were concerned about its location. It would also be good to know WEST's bidding style. Is he the type of guy who would jump to 3 when holding four card support for partner based upon the law of total tricks?

My believe is that East has six spades and west three. The problem hand is when split 4-2 with EAST having four. It will be theoretically easier to set up a long than a long . You have plenty of tricks if you could safely cross ruff the hand out, but someone will overruff a or a . So my line is this.

T3, discard a from hand and ruff in dummy,
T4, ruff a
T5, finessee the 9 to get to dummy
T6. ruff a with the T
T7. finessee the J
T8. ruff a with the A
Pull trumps and claim....

If the club hook loses, well, I have been down before. Not sure what the best line really is, this is just how I would play it.

Ben
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#4 User is offline   mishovnbg 

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Posted 2004-April-29, 01:26

I never play for opps are idiots :rolleyes: . E can't know is declarer hand is 2254 or 2155 so play in possible double ruffing and discarding losing else , if E had K is not reasonable line. I will play for finesse , take trumps, starting with A, because bidding and play show possible trump shortness in E hand, agree with Ben.
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#5 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-April-29, 06:47

3 posters, and the 3 lines reasonable lines posted, how nice!

ok Ben, I think you maded a little mistake, there is no need to rely on finise, here is the timing:

ruff in dummy!! its amazing, since you need 2 rounds of trumps and 3 ruffs, you need to start shortening the hand you want to stablish.

ruff a in hand (you discarded a at trick 3 from hand)
K, pray for both following, (otherwise you´ll need 3-3)
A
ruff a
ruff a (1 trump left in dummy)
ruff a : dummy is high
claim

is it really high?

not at all, the real hand:


Scoring: Chicago


Nice try Free, you were near, but not enough, 4th is ruffed with Q :-(


What I could extract from this hand was: don´t be so blind, trying so solve an amazing timing problem (so I was), and look more closely to wha tis going on.

Well done Misho, oh well that is normal after all, isn´t it? :(

On the real hand I believe some more would succed:

It came form a total points 4 boards match semi-final, there is something to say about these kind of tournamets:

-They are unfair (so are individuals!, at least here you get in rage of your luck, not of your partner)

-They are really exciting, with 1 board to go having to score 200 points at least...

this was the third board, on first opponents bid 1-6 for 1010, so you can imagine they aren´t the kind of ones who play ruff&discard with K (even then I failed).
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Posted 2004-April-29, 07:16

Fluffy, on Apr 29 2004, 07:47 AM, said:

3 posters, and the 3 lines reasonable lines posted, how nice!

ok Ben, I think you maded a little mistake, there is no need to rely on finise, here is the timing:

Ok.. I made a mistake, but on the other hand, I will still easily made the contract on my line. Sure I never set up a long , but I can cross ruff the hand with impunity after EAST follows low on the first round of trumps.

I will win 1, 1, 1 ruff, 3 ruffs, and 5s in dummy (the hook, a high one, and three ruffs. My line allows for EAST to be void in (and hence have more 's), or to be short in 's and 's.

Misho idea to hook the has merit, and this is why I said I view the T with contempt. Not because if gave me a ruff and sluff, but because of the potential suit preference signal associated with it. But Misho is correct, with K, giving a ruff and sluff makes no sense. I just assumed that I didn't need two tricks, so the location of the King was rather immaterial. But clearly "rsking" a hook is better chances than risking the hook on this hand.

Ben
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#7 User is offline   Trpltrbl 

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Posted 2004-April-29, 12:12

I am not trusting the 10.
X-ruffing will more then likely not work, so need to get 2 tricks, 8 tricks if they split 2-1 and Ace = 11 tricks.
Why does East play that 10, he doesn't know I am 5-5. Unless he peeked :(
So I pull trump and finesse , if the are 3-0, then the have to behave.

Mike :)
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2004-April-29, 12:54

Fluffy, on Apr 29 2004, 09:47 PM, said:

~snip

Nice try Free, you were near, but not enough, 4th is ruffed with Q :-(

~snip

I only need to ruff 3 s (I wait with the A ofcourse) :( Discard 1 on the , crossruff 3s and 3s, last and my A is good... :) Don't see why it's not enough...
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#9 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2004-April-30, 10:36

Hi again free!

I assuemd you palyed starndard corss ruff line: make your outside tricks quick and then corss ruff, that should include A.

Ok, so you aren´t doing so.... then I´ll need a paper to see if you are coming home :D

1 K
2 A
3 discard + ruff in dummy
4 K
5 A
6 ruffed in hand, trumps are 3-3 now
7 ruff (2-3)
8 ruff (2-2)
9 ruff (1-2)
10 ruff (1-1)
11 ruff (0-1)
now you have to give Q to west because you are locked in dummy unable to draw the last trump.
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